Kirill: 00:04
This is FiveMinuteFriday, Stand More – Sit Less.
Kirill: 00:15
Welcome back everybody. This is going to be an interesting episode. I’ve been having a lot of back pain, lower back pain for the past couple of months, actually, and got really bad in the past few weeks. And I’ve seen a few chiropractors. The reason, guess this, the reason for my back pain is sitting too much. That’s right, sitting too much. Out of all the things you can do in life, who would have thought that sitting can be so hurtful for you.
Kirill: 00:49
So, what I did in a nutshell is, I recorded a podcast, a Q&A session with my chiropractor. And Ingó was kind enough to share his time and expertise. And just now you will hear that recording. Before we dive into it though, I wanted to say that none of this is medical advice. Please consult your healthcare practitioner about your unique situation. This is just general knowledge, and it was very beneficial to me. So, I thought I’d share his insights with you in case you might find them useful. And with that disclaimer, out of the way, let’s get straight into it. And please enjoy this conversation with Ingó.
Kirill: 01:33
Hello, could you please introduce yourself?
Ingólfur: 01:35
My name is Ingolfur Ingólfsson and I’m a chiropractor in Iceland. I’ve been working for 15 years since I graduated from Iowa in America.
Kirill: 01:46
Okay. And what does a chiropractor do?
Ingólfur: 01:49
A chiropractor is like a nerve specialist. We take care of the back and the spine to make sure it’s in like optimal condition. So people don’t have to be really sick to see us or have a problem. They just can come if they have problems or if they’re like 99%, then they want to be 100%, we try to help them as best we can.
Kirill: 02:10
Awesome. And in the 15 years, approximately how many patients have you seen?
Ingólfur: 02:16
Oh, a few thousand. Yeah. There’s not a lot of chiropractors in Iceland, so we do see a lot of people. And we try to do our best.
Kirill: 02:24
Awesome. Okay. Thank you. So my question, number one is, is it true that sitting is bad for you and why?
Ingólfur: 02:33
Sitting is bad for you? Yes. There’s have been research where they actually take like pressure needles and they stick into the discs in your back. And they just measure pressure from sitting, to lying, to walking and running. And the most amount of pressure in the low back is when you sit. So, it’s just a scientific fact that when you sit, you have more pressure on your disk. And if you sit for a lot of hours, then you have more pressure for a lot of hours. And then just kind of time wears you down.
Kirill: 03:08
Gottcha. So they wear out faster over the-
Ingólfur: 03:11
Yes, yeah. They lose water and hydration and yeah. They become stiff and then they degenerate.
Kirill: 03:16
Oh, okay. Got you. On the other hand, is standing good for you?
Ingólfur: 03:21
Yes. Like the human frame is just more made for standing and actually running too. There’s an old myth that running is bad for you. But usually, if you take somebody who’s been sitting at a computer for like 20 years and they start running, they can feel some pain. But in general, the human body is really made for running. And yes, definitely standing. So standing is always better than sitting.
Kirill: 03:46
So, evolutionary we’ve been designed that way.
Ingólfur: 03:49
Evolutionary definitely. We can run in long times.
Kirill: 03:52
Awesome. Thank you. What is the recommended ratio of sitting time to standing time in any given workday?
Ingólfur: 04:02
To me, I usually tell my clients that they should stand the biggest part of the day. So, I usually tell them aim for 80%, because if you train that way, you aim for 80, it takes usually two or three months to get there. No scientific data behind it, just 15 years of experience and testing with people, different patients, different clients in different jobs. And I have had any given body type, young athletes up to like older women, who have been able to reach at least 80% then feel really good.
Kirill: 04:42
Awesome. Does sitting is almost like a luxury that you could use for restaurants or for going to a theater or sitting at work, but not the default setting?
Ingólfur: 04:53
Yes, definitely. And while you train for standing, you just always… I tell people, start your day standing. Stand as long as you can. And then you can sit when you get tired. And same with afternoon, you start standing and you sit when you get tired. As time goes by, you just stand longer and longer without having to strain yourself and then finally sitting becomes like an option. Let’s say you have a meeting and it would be weird to stand. It would be a sitting atmosphere, then you can sit.
Kirill: 05:25
That’s right. And obviously everybody’s situation is different. So people need to definitely consult with their own doctors before taking any advice.
Ingólfur: 05:33
Definitely.
Kirill: 05:34
However, are there any general negatives to standing or any general risks that people should be aware of, of standing too much for example?
Ingólfur: 05:44
I would say if you have any type of degeneration in your spine or your hips or your knees or your ankles, then you would have to talk to your doctor and find out exactly how much it is, where it is and then, yeah. Get the advice from him.
Kirill: 06:00
Got you, thank you. Have you seen improvements in patients who shifted from sitting to a standing work style?
Ingólfur: 06:10
Yeah. That’s actually pretty dramatic because I would say in general it slows me down. Like, if I have somebody who’s on the right track and they’re sitting a lot, it slows down the healing process. So I see dramatic results when people start standing. I just have to rely on their ability to be able to decide how fast they want to go to 80%, if that’s their number and how they do it. Yeah.
Kirill: 06:42
Awesome. And standing desks can be quite expensive. Is it okay for me to make my own standing workspace from books and boxes, for example?
Ingólfur: 06:54
You can start out that way, yeah. I’ve told people, I haven’t seen it, but I’ve heard a few clients tell me that IKEA even has some good desks that you can turn a handle, so it’s not electric, but you can raise it by hand. So that would be maybe a way to start cheaper.
Kirill: 07:14
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Ingólfur: 07:14
And then go to electric desk, if it works out well for you.
Kirill: 07:18
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Awesome. When selecting a standing desk or creating one for yourself, what needs to be considered? For instance, in terms of ergonomics, are there certain criteria of height and where my head and hands should be and things like that?
Ingólfur: 07:32
Yeah, the easiest way to explain, and talk like this as if your elbows are at like 90 degrees, then you were really close to what the ideal is. Extra things to think about would be good shoes. And they have these mats that are really soft that you can stand on, I would try to use those also. And then the height of the screen is also important because you have to try to aim for looking straight forward. So you’re not looking down.
Kirill: 08:03
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Got you, thank you. And if someone has to sit because of their works office policy, like they just don’t have the option to put a standing desk at their work office, what can they do to reduce the negative impact on their spine that is caused by sitting?
Ingólfur: 08:23
The biggest thing there would be training to sit up straight. You cannot lean back, so you’re sitting on your low back. So I would aim sitting like a soldier, if I can use that analogy. So your chest is up and shoulders back. And that’s actually a pretty good way to compensate for that. So you’re not sitting like ridiculously straight, not overcompensating, but definitely straight.
Kirill: 08:53
And you had mentioned to me that when you’re driving, you should also aim for that as well.
Ingólfur: 08:57
Yeah, definitely. You can use… Like an easy way, something you can use is like, sometimes take off my sweater if I’m driving for some distance and I roll it up and I put it next to my low back to push it forward. So-
Kirill: 09:10
To create that~ [inaudible 00:09:12].
Ingólfur: 09:12
Yes.
Kirill: 09:17
What about any kind of like movement, for instance, if somebody has to sit at work, how frequently should they stand up and walk around? Is there some guidance for that?
Ingólfur: 09:26
I’ve heard anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour. I think it’s really hard to go by feel there. Because usually if you feel like you’re getting tired in your low back and you want to stand up and move, it’s too late. So you have to figure out if, let’s say you can sit for an hour and then you get tired. I would always recommend stand up after 45 minutes and move. So you’re a little bit ahead of the time where you feel it.
Kirill: 09:56
Awesome. Thank you. And those are all my questions. Do you have any final comments for all listeners?
Ingólfur: 10:02
No. Just good to meet you and glad we did this interview and I hope it helps some people to feel better with their spine.
Kirill: 10:10
Awesome. Thank you very much Ingó.
Kirill: 10:12
So there you have it, everybody. And a huge thank you to Ingó for sharing his knowledge today with us. As Ingó said, you can get some cheap standing desks that are not electric. For instance, in IKEA. Another one I wanted to say that I like is a desk called the Yo-Yo desk, I don’t have any affiliation with this company whatsoever. The’rey not aware that I’m including this in the podcast, is just the desk that I find useful. It’s a desk that you put on top of your normal desk. It’s not a standalone, this is a desk you put on top of your other desk, you can adjust it up and down. It’s got hydraulics in there, so it’s not electric, but it is quite easy to adjust. And finally you can put together your own desk as well. Just be careful with the heights.
Kirill: 10:58
There are some guidelines online, you can find at… Like reiterating what Ingó said today, about the elbows 90 degrees, how your head should be placed and so on. If you’re interested in looking at so, please do some research before diving into the space. But my personal testimonials, I’ve been using standing desks one or another. Right now I have one that I’ve created myself out of boxes and furniture.
Kirill: 11:27
I’ve been using stand desks for the past four or five months, probably around four months. And it’s been fantastic. I’ve gotten used to it and feels really natural to just work standing. So there we go. Hope you enjoyed this podcast and got some value out of it. And if you know anybody who’s suffering from any kind of back pain or lower back pain, please send them this episode. Let’s share the love. Let’s spread the word, so that others can also benefit. And maybe they’ll find something useful in here as well. And on that note, I’ll see you next time until then happy analyzing.
