SDS 322: Diets

Kirill: Welcome back to the SuperDataScience podcast, ladies and gentlemen. Super excited to have you back here on the show. We’re continuing our New Zealand trip, and our New Zealand series of episodes. I’m here with Vitaly and Hadelin, so for those who don’t know, Hadelin is my business partner and co-course creator and Vitaly is my mentor, Vitaly Dolgov management consulting for mining. So today we decided to talk about diets. So Vitaly what triggered this conversation?

Vitaly: I guess the reason for me not eating today was a self-inflicted diet, and we decided to dedicate today’s topic to this. What we want to do today is we’re going to share our practices, and the theory behind them from each one of us, and you guys decide if you want to do more research on this topic, and develop your own routines. So Kirill, what do you usually do? What kind of diet do you usually follow?

Kirill: Just before I answer the question, just to prefix this, none of this is medical advice. We’re not medical professionals, so consult with your own practitioners, and see what’s right for you. This is just our opinions, and our own life choices. What diet I usually follow? Mostly plant-based. Sometimes I eat fish, sometimes cheese, and then every day, almost every day, I don’t eat breakfast, so I only eat two meals per day, lunch and dinner.

Kirill: Then every Monday, or almost every Monday, I think this year I’ve only skipped twice, but overall every Monday, I don’t eat at all. So I have a whole fasting day. That’s been influenced by certain friends, certain people I’ve met, podcasts I’ve listened to, books I’ve read and things like that. But I was very surprised to see that you weren’t eating today as well. Why do you all of a sudden… What diet do you follow then?

Vitaly: Just in general, before again I jump in answering your question. In general, I tend to eat mostly vegetables. I’m okay eating meat and fish, but I try to do it in a moderation, or minimize it, I would even say. But once in a while, probably once a fortnight, I do a meal free a day, where I don’t eat at all. I’ll just be drinking tea, primarily green or coffee and water of course. The reason for that is to get into some sort of early stages of ketosis.

Vitaly: I listened to Dr Rhonda Patrick podcast, and if you Google this name you would probably find a number of YouTube videos on this topic, and you can understand what I’m talking about. But yeah, Doctor Rhonda Patrick suggested that not eating for a prolonged period of time, and I think it’s 16 or 18 hours plus, will get your body into generating ketones, that are supposedly good for you.

Vitaly: We had just a few minutes ago a debate with a medical practitioner, was she physical practitioner, physical therapist like on this topic, and my frame of belief has been shaken a little bit. I need to do more research, and study more, so don’t quote me on anything here. But my original idea was to get into some sort of ketosis, get those ketones to do their healthy ways in my body, to address some of the unhealthy cells in my body. Hopefully the ones that could potentially turn into cancer, and yeah, therefore become healthier. So that one day a fortnight is kind of like a deloading of the organism, and provoking my immune system to fight something useless or harmful to my body.

Vitaly: So that’s probably my main kind of way of diet. During the week I actually tend not to eat a lot of sweets. Actually on this trip, it was probably more of an exception, because we had random meals here and there. But generally I don’t eat sweet and starchy stuff, like rice, bread, potatoes and all the chocolates and fruit will be minimized almost to zero during the week. Only one day a week, come every Saturday I smash on, like I eat whatever I want, in any quantity I want. Following Tim Ferriss’s Saturday concept. The reason I do that is because apparently there are two main reasons.

Vitaly: First, it helps you sustain a habit of not eating unhealthy stuff on all other days. So if you have a cheat day, you’ll be looking forward to it, and you are likely to sustain a good habit. The second reason is people tend to, according to again Tim Ferriss research in the book 4-Hour Body. People who have a cheat day tend to lose weight faster, than those that consistently do the diet like throughout the whole week. So yeah, these are my two things.

Kirill: Why is that? Why do they tend to lose weight faster?

Vitaly: I probably will misquote Tim Ferriss if I attempt to do so. I tend to remember a take away for myself, a practical thing I need to do. If the logic seemed reasonable to me, but I don’t retain all the logic, I just know where to find it if I need to. That’s 4-Hour Body book. So we might kind of do the link there, like the end of the podcast, and refer to a specific thing. But yeah, that’s me. These are the two things I do.

Vitaly: Fast, water, tea, coffee for the full day once a fortnight. Reduce all the starch and sugary carbohydrates, essentially for the rest of other days, and have one cheat day on Saturday. What about you Kirill? What are the things that you do that are not just generic? Like in terms you said that you are mainly vegan or pescatarian, like a symbiosis of that. What do you do to cleanse your body, or what kind of fasts have you tried?

Kirill: Well the fasting I already mentioned. Another extra probably peculiar thing I do, is I drink apple cider vinegar in the evening and in the morning. That’s also based on a few people. I’ve heard a podcast, there’s a book about it. One of my dad’s friends did it for a while. So yeah, like-

Vitaly: What’s the logic behind it? Why do you do it? Does it help you feel better? Is it a prevention mechanism? What does it do to you?

Kirill: So the research around apple cider vinegar is quite limited. One thing that I believe I’ve read somewhere is it acts like lemon. So if you eat an orange, then it will create an acidic environment in your body because of the sugar that contains. But if you have some lemon water, you know how they recommend to have a glass of hot water with lemon in the morning.

Vitaly: They do, and by they, doctors who are not dentists. Dentists hide that advice because that creates acidic environment for your teeth, that destroy them.

Kirill: But the thing about lemon is, that once you drink a warm lemon water in the morning, it gets in your stomach. The way it breaks down is, even though lemon is acidic on its own, once it’s broken down it actually becomes alkaline. So it creates an alkaline environment. So it increases alkalinity in your body, and that way… And cancer thrives in acid environments, acidic environments, so pH below seven. Whereas in alkaline, it doesn’t thrive or dies. In fact if you take a baby when it’s born, it’s more alkaline then it’s acidic. So its pH is above seven, and that’s why they recommended alkaline water. I have a water bottle with an alkaline filter. I don’t remember the name right now. We can link it in the show notes as well.

Kirill: So basically it increases the alkalinity of your body, and that’s good for you. So that’s how the lemon water works in the morning. That’s why they recommend doing it. Because when we’re born we’re more alkaline, and then we eat a lot of meat, we eat a lot of acidic food. Meat is acidic. That’s one of the reasons why our acidity goes up. As far as I know the apple cider vinegar acts in a similar fashion, but also has some other benefits, like increasing your immune system and so on.

Kirill: Like for me the main tricks are, sleep enough, at least seven hours a day, preferably eight, and drink a lot of water. You’ve seen me, I drink at least three liters of water per day, and that helps. So the apple cider vinegar, I think it helps, again do your research, but I’m sure that the water helps. Like drinking at least three liters per day, really helps me avoid getting sick and things like that.

Vitaly: What about your fasting at Bali? You talked the other day. I found that peculiar.

Kirill: Yeah, I’ve mentioned this on the podcast as well. So for two years now I’ve been doing a 10 day fast in Bali. Do it around April, March, no April, May. So there’s this company called Natural Instinct Healing (NIH), naturalinstincthealing.com. I’ve talked to them. I think they create a coupon code. You can just use coupon code Kirill. Like I get no benefits out of it whatsoever, but they’ll give you a 10 or 20% discount if you decide to ever sign up, or just call them and talk to Pat, and tell him that you come from the SuperDataScience Podcast arranged a discount. But basically it’s a 10 days supervised fast, it’s like a juice fast, but very diluted juices of watermelon and celery and things like that, apple, so that you’ve maintained your vitamins. But it’s really cool. You fast for 10 days, you eat nothing, and as you said, your ketones go up. Especially after day three you don’t feel hungry anymore, and again that is supposed to kill cancer cells.

Kirill: It’s interesting because the doctor we talked to today, she was like, well the ketones are acidic. I don’t know if maybe they are acidic, but I’ve actually heard research and studies that, what is that diet? The fast mimicking diet FMMD or FMD, fasting mimicking diet. Tim Ferriss talks about it as well with Kevin Rose. Kevin Rose is doing it. It’s mimicking because they get these soups that keep your calorie intake under 60 calories per day. Meaning that your body still is fasting, ketones are still produced but you don’t feel as hungry. Basically, bottom line is that fasting is actually prescribed to cancer patients, or intermittent fasting on and off. Like, well a day off, day on, two days off, two days on, three days off, three days on, is prescribed to cancer patients in order to reduce cancer, and combined with chemotherapy, it really helps. Like there’s been studies to show that it really helps.

Kirill: So I’m not sure what that argument that she was suggesting today that you know ketones are bad for you because they’re acidic, they increase potential for cancer. Actually as far as I know, they destroy cancer cells, because that’s the ones that your body targets in the first place.

Vitaly: Yeah, that definitely is above my pay grade and above my level of competency, like this discussion. I tend to use a simple set of rules that seem logical to me, and it’s easier to apply. I usually think about a diet, any type of diet, as I reference to our ancestors, the cavemen, when they had both fast and famine. When they were doing hunting during that hunting periods for sometimes a day or two, they would be generally deprived of food, and then by hunting an animal and bring it back, they would have a feast together with their family. So our bodies I tend to think are designed for that type of life, and for that time of procurement of nutrients. All of the supermarkets and availability of an abundance of food next to us, is not what they were designed for. I don’t believe, and that’s believe underscored, that our bodies evolved enough to quickly process that abundance of food.

Vitaly: I think our bodies and DNA is still catching up with that. So that is my kind of like simple thinking, same way on the plant food or kind of not eating any processed like refined sugars, or bread, in all the unhealthy foods. I usually apply simple rule, I think I forgot the name of the author, but again I’ll share it with Kirill later. But the simple rule, eat as little as necessary, like mainly vegetables and something that your grandma would potentially recommend you to eat, or would allow you to eat. So whenever there is like fried potatoes, like or some sort of intricate dessert that I know my grandma wouldn’t give it to me, wouldn’t cook it for me, and wouldn’t allow me to eat. That’s for me a general rule of, okay, I’ll skip it. I won’t do it. So simple set of rules usually is easier to abide by, a lot of science and research I think goes into them, but by no means an expert. What are your thoughts?

Kirill: I was very interested in your comments about fruit and starchy foods. I’ll get you a book called The Starch Solution by I think it’s Dr John McDougall or basically the surname McDougall, very famous doctor in America. He basically says, starch is the answer to all these questions. Like potatoes are great for you. Rice, barley, wheat, everything’s fantastic for you. You just need to cut out, need to go plant-based and also do a lot of starch. He makes a reference that gladiators wouldn’t ever eat meat, they were actually called Barley Men back in Rome because they would only eat barley. Alexander the Great’s army wouldn’t go into battle if they were given meat the day before, because they wanted to be like light and so on. But basically he says starch is great food, and potatoes contain a lot of cool things.

Kirill: But I think that’s all intricacies. The, probably the key takeaway and something I love that you mentioned, is that indeed like the abundance of food that’s around us. That’s abundance of anything, that we live in a world of abundance, is actually doing us a disservice. Like abundance of social media around us. Terrible, right? Abundance of news, terrible. Abundance of opinions, terrible. Abundance of technology, terrible, same thing. Abundance of food is actually doing us a huge disservice, and that’s why you need the willpower, determination, and routines, habits, to deprive yourself of that abundance. Like I want to reference a study that I found out about recently. This was on a podcast. Which one was this? This was a London Real with, I forgot the doctor’s name, but with a doctor. Yeah, it was a London Real and was one of the two podcasts I listened to about this on this topic.

Kirill: But basically they did, is they took a group of mice or rats, I think it was rats or mice, no mice. So one group, they just fed them every day, like 100% of their food daily intake. The second group they would allow them, they would get them to intermittently fast. So they would allow them to eat only on every second day. So, but then allow them to eat as much as they want. So they ate about 190% of the daily intake on every second day. So pretty much, almost the same amount as the other mice, but they were only eating every second day. Those second group of mice lived 30% longer.

Kirill: So you know fasting like that, depriving yourself of that abundance, puts your body into the state of like… Actually depriving yourself of access to food, puts your body into a state of stress, but not that much stress it will hurt you, or harm you, or kill you. But enough stress that will get your body acting like as it was in the caveman time, right? When it’s okay, now I’ve got to go and find food, and I got to activate my systems, I got to use my resources, I got to kill all those cancer cells and things like that.

Vitaly: Different people have different level. So for some people like could be an hour, for some people it could be days.

Kirill: Of course. [crosstalk 00:16:27] But if you’re walking around, stopping by any McDonald’s and picking up chips whenever you feel like, getting all that, when you don’t have a habit routine. Like some of the most successful and inspiring people I know, ranging from a Dr Peter Attia who is a Tim Ferriss doctor, to what’s his name? The Iceman, Wim Hoff. They eat once per day, around 6PM they have a big meal, the end. The rest of the day they’re hungry. So they’re intermittent fasting like every day, for 20 hours, 20-22 hours. So again, as you say, it’s different for everyone. Speaking of everyone, Hadelin I think woke up, Hadelin was having a nap on the grass. Hadelin what have you got, what comments do you have on diets? 

Hadelin: All right, so we just talked about fruits, and fruits is actually the main part of my diet, because I eat a lot of fruits. At my place there like tons of oranges, mangoes, grapes, mango juice, well apples, all the fruits. So yeah, first of all, I eat a lot of fruits. Second of all, I’m 80% plant-based [inaudible 00:17:37], which means that 20%, well I can eat anything including meat, and that I usually do on holidays or during this trip in New Zealand. I don’t fast, but you know I hear more and more, that it’s a good practice. So I would like to do my research and consider it. So I think soon I might be fasting, at least once per week, just to try and see how I feel. Because it also depends on how you feel. You know, you’re not doing it because someone else says it’s good, you’re doing it because it makes you feel good. So I think that’s important.

Hadelin: But the most important rule that I have, I think after all, is to have balance. It’s to have a balanced diet with, as I said, fruits, vegetables, plant-based food and you know, anything that is not junk food. And even I sometimes take junk food, like once per month, just because you know it’s not too much, and yeah, I enjoy it. So I don’t have too very strict rules, but I have a very balanced diet and I consider myself very healthy.

Kirill: Junk food is like Vitaly’s cheat day. You know, once a month.

Hadelin: Exactly. Junk food is a pizza. Last night we had a pizza.

Vitaly: Vegan.

Hadelin: Vegan pizza. So it was not exactly junk food. Yeah, so I don’t have any like obsessions about food. I just maintain a balanced diet plus some sports, and this makes me very healthy.

Kirill: Awesome. I wanted to ask you about what are we talking about earlier today, you said you weigh now what, like 72 right? It was so funny, you’re taller than me. I thought you were like a centimeter taller, you like 10 centimeters taller than me.

Hadelin: And you are 72 too.

Kirill: Yeah and I weigh 72 as well. So you know, according to the BMI index, if my BMI index is good then you should weigh a bit more. But you mentioned that your diet is very different to what it was back when you were at college. When you were doing a lot of bodybuilding, right?

Hadelin: Yeah. So today I weight 72 kilos, and back in the days at uni-

Kirill: How tall are you?

Hadelin: I’m a 189.

Vitaly: Centimeters

Kirill: 189 centimeters. So that’s about six foot, two.

Hadelin: Six foot two, I’m six foot two, 189 centimeters. So back in college, I was the same height. However, I weighed 90 kilos, because I was doing a lot of a body building and I ate so much. I ate one kilogram of cottage cheese per day, six eggs in the morning, tons of pasta. I remember I could eat a 500 grams of pasta at dinner. It was crazy.

Kirill: Is that after it’s cooked, or from the packet 500 grams?

Hadelin: After it’s cooked. No, from the packet, you’re right. Yeah, from the packet. So yeah, I was eating like crazy. I was going to the gym every day, and I weighed 90 kilos, but that was too much. That was not a good BMI I guess. I remember my energy was not as good as today. Because today, okay, I weighed 72-73 kilos for a still 189 centimeters, and I feel great. I feel very energized, very productive at work. So yeah, it’s much better today I would say.

Kirill: Fantastic. Okay. Well I think we’ll wrap up on that one. Vitaly’s telling me that our motorbikes are waiting. By the way, where are we today guys?

Vitaly: We are today at Milford Sound in the Southern Island, on the south west part of it. A pretty unique place.

Kirill: North west. [foreign language 00:21:29].

Vitaly: Let’s agree we’re in the west, and yeah, it’s on the western side of the Island, Southern Island. It’s pretty unique place. You have mountains, you’ve got beautiful water here. Just one of the best sceneries like I’ve ever seen in my life.

Kirill: Yeah. With the fjords and you can even see the icecaps.

Vitaly: Absolutely, yeah. Reminds me actually of Patagonia a little bit.

Kirill: I’ve never been, you’ve been?

Vitaly: Yes. One of my favorite places, ever. I traveled with my wife there. Back then it was, she was a girlfriend, and now my wife, it’s amazing place. Yeah.

Kirill: Fantastic. Okay.

Kirill: Okay, well thanks a lot guys. This was-

Vitaly: A five minute podcast, Friday.

Kirill: A 20 minute, FiveMinuteFriday. But again, those are all our opinions on diets, and habits and things like that. Do your research if anything of this sounds interesting, but I guess the main takeaway is, paying attention to it is the first step. You know, being aware of what you eat, what you put in your body, is extremely important.

Vitaly: Create your own routine, consult with the doctor doing it, follow it, and see how you feel. And if you maintain the balance like as a result or not. 

Hadelin: Oh, and don’t forget the physical activities.

Vitaly: Yeah.

Kirill: Physical activity is super important. [inaudible 00:22:50] There’s a new movie I really want to watch, it’s called Game Changers. The reason, the one we watched when we became plant-based is called…

Hadelin: What the Health and Forks Over Knives work.

Kirill: What the Health, Forks Over Knives, Cowspiracy, those are great movies, but the recent one it’s called Game Changers, it’s on Netflix. If you haven’t seen it yet, watch it. Because I haven’t yet, but I’m going to watch it. Allegedly, it’s got like really high quality production, like Hollywood level. All right.

Hadelin: I’m excited, I want to watch it now.

Kirill: Okay. Thanks guys. Thanks everybody and see you back on the podcast. Until then, happy analyzing.

Hadelin: Eat well.